On November 12th, Cog Hill owner Frank Jemsek and Golf Course Architect Rees Jones sat down with Rory Spears (WJJG-AM 1530 and Contributing Writer for PA-Sportsticker) and 36 year veteran golf writer Len Ziehm of the Chicago-Sun Times. Here is a transcript of the interview discussing the progress made during the renovations to Cog Hill course #4 (Dubsdread).

Rory Spears (RS): WGA just informed everyone about the date change, your thoughts.
Frank Jemsek (FJ): "I’m excited. I think whoever came up with the idea to change Crooked Stick from 2010 to 2012 was really smart. This way the golf fans will get a tournament every year. With the Ryder Cup and the BMW three weeks apart, we wouldn't want to get hurt financially with the Evans Scholars Foundation involved. I am really pleased. I was asked a couple weeks ago and was surprised, so I said give me a day to think about it. So I did, and thought it was such a great idea and I wish I had thought of it. I called back the next day and said it's a go."


RS: Is Cog Hill getting a 4th year of this event the result of smart scheduling, or is the tour already in love with what you and Rees have come up with for course #4?
FJ: "I don't think it's the changes to the course. I think it just seemed foolish not to have something in Chicago every year, being it is the third largest market in the country. Normally our event was one of the best attended events, but the fall (date) did hurt the attendance last year.
I also think some people protested last year, that there would not be a tournament in Chicago every year. The golf fans understand moving an event out of town when you have a US Open or PGA or Ryder Cup that year, but they have never understood just not having a tournament in Chicago."


RS: Have you detected a backlash about next year with nothing going on?
FJ: "I have a little bit but I am not an expert authority. I remember in 2006 seeing one person that said they didn't attend the last Western Open (06) because of them (PGA) taking the event out of Chicago. I know some people are unhappy with the name change."


RS: The extra year is good for the fans, what does it do for Cog Hill business-wise?
FJ: "Probably I would have done better in 2010 with the tournament not at the course, economically. But I knew from the time I grew up as a kid at St. Andrews that when the tournament is over there is always resurgence in golf in the area. So anything that ultimately benefits the interest of golf in the Chicago area, ultimately benefits Cog Hill and the other area courses. I might not have as good of a 2010 as I would have liked, but I am thrilled to have the tournament. I hope in 2012 I will make it up and believe I will."


RS: Every time you showcase the course and test it against the top players, the USGA gets more info about how it might play for a US OPEN.
FJ: "Yes, and helps us study galleries that is something we look at, we also want to be more spectator friendly. Since at a tournament we have two clienteles, one being people who play the course or will, and the other the people who just attend the tournament."


RS: Happy with progress?
Rees Jones (RJ): "We have been fortunate with the weather and by Thanksgiving the whole golf course will be shaped. The course has gained character and length; the bunkers are repositioned and very stylish too. The public players when they return will notice their course has additional make-up and lipstick. It will be very beautiful."


RS: Any changes from the original plan?
RJ: "No, Dick Wilson did a wonderful job; this is a great piece of golf property. The tailor cut the cloth well initially, what we are doing is just making adjustments because the game has changed. There are some very fantastic contours on the new greens; we still will have the Dick Wilson tongues and little small areas of greens. You will have to make choices, go for the fat of the green or go for the Dick Wilson tongue. That will depend on where you hit your tee shot, and the penalty will be greater if you go for the small part of the green and miss it. There will be all kinds of choices so this will be a course of continuing interest."


RS: What will golfers notice you did here?
RJ: "They will see Dick Wilson green concepts, they will notice the bunkers have been refurbished. We have taken the tee's back, but they are not for the general public, the general public will play the same tees they have played in the past. They will notice that many of the greens have been made a lot smaller, because the green complexes are much more important than in past because the ball goes so far than in the past. Back when Dick Wilson designed this course and like my father Robert Trent Jones they always built big greens, because long holes you hit woods into them, now you hit mid-irons. So the green complexes have to be smaller."


RS: What will the touring players notice here for a tour event..or an (U.S.) Open if one comes here?
RJ: "They will remember their old friend, but they will notice it's been updated. It's lengthened, but they will be able to hit the par 5's in two. They will notice the par 3's have some additional length, but will still probably play #2 about 180 where they played it in the past. The par 4's have more bite to them because some will play 470-480."


More from RJ on progress: "Wadsworth construction had brought in a great crew and a double crew so we are moving quite quickly. Greg (Muirhead) and I have been here often putting all the subtle changes in. The soil is good, even the some of it is heavier than other. So the course is shaping up."


RS: (Hole) 13 has taken on some changes.
RJ: "13 is a dynamic change. That was a great hole to begin with, but has been bracketed on both sides with bunkers and the green has a tongue back right. We took a little of the bump out of the green from the front, people will want to get through that hole. 14 has added length and 15 I hope the tour plays as a par 4. 18 is over 500 yards now, bracketed by bunkers too, that will make quite a finish."


RS: 18 green, you moved the water right up to it?
RJ: "We moved the green to the water, but the green won't be bigger because we shifted it. The water will now come into play and the bank is steeper so the ball will hit the water."


RS: Improvement on the mounding for spectators when the tournament is here.
RJ: "Number 7 has a good slope, number 5 does too and number 12. We took the viewing into consideration."


Len Ziehm (LZ): How has the work gone since the BMW?
FJ: "It has gone great, we might even be a little ahead of schedule. We couldn't have had better weather than we have had, the dry weather is great for moving earth. We hope to finish all the the major dirt moving work before the winter arrives."


LZ: Has there been a change since the original design came together..it's looks different on #8.
FJ: "There is a stream that runs down the side of number 8 behind the willow tree's that used to be there, there was a thought of moving that water out into the fairway so it would affect the players more. But it looked un-natural so it didn't work out, so that idea was abandoned and there will be a series of traps instead. Some of the willow trees on #8 that I planted in 1964 had grown up. When willow trees get old they deteriorate, and some of them had so we took a few down for safety. So we lost some of the protection for the green on that hole, so Rees and his team will have to use all their skills to make that hole challenging."


RS: Did anything change when you got out there and started moving dirt around?
FJ: “There was some reshaping done for visibility purposes. On 13 and 14 when those holes were originally built they filled in the ravine, because the thought was that the holes would be too hard. That didn't work out though because the hole looked un-natural, and when people laid up close on 13 they would end off up to side and into trouble. So the earth was dug up in front of 13 and the stream feature was put back in. What I like that Rees has done, is right in front of the stream he has tilted the fairway up. It will help keep people from going in the water, and it is easier to hit uphill shots to an uphill green. The dirt they took out, was moved up to 14 for some additional gallery mounding on the left hand side. It looks like it fit right in."


LZ: Can you recap what is happening on the 18th hole.
FJ: “The 470-480 yard par 4's are not much of a challenge for the big hitters. Tiger's drive on 18 was 355 last year, so the tee's are moved back to 505. The green is moved closer to the water and back part of the green is tucked behind the water, the green is lower (5 feet) and closer to the water. The traps on 18 are deeper and it is a narrower green, I hope that is scary for the pro's, it will be terrifying for me. The traps are narrower in some spots on the course, some places you will carry traps if you hit it over 300. Some places you won't if you hit it 350."


LZ: What did you change on # 3?
FJ: "The front part of the green has been taken off, everyone thought the second shot was always much bigger than required. The tee has been moved back just a little, that and the front of the green being taken off will make the hole play longer. There was one trap right of the hole, that could only be hit by Tiger and John Daly. Now there is a second one that says, don't come here and avoid the stream too. We always though we could make that a hole a dog leg right, but the people we hired that are smarter than me, decided we couldn't do that."


RS: Frank at first you and Rees didn't want to call this a major renovation, but it's hard not to when you see all the dirt than has been moved right.
FJ: "Yes it is, but they kept the same routing which is a testament to Dick Wilson and Joe Lee's original plan. But it's been brought up to modern times, the trapping especially was out date for today's players."


RS: A lot is made of tree removal these days, what is happening on that front?
FJ: "Yes we have taken some tress out, in most cases for visibility. In one case on 15, we took out a tree to build a front tee, so people didn't have to carry a ravine to play the hole. There are some trees being added and some being moved from places where they would not be in play for a championship player, to the right side of five. There were traps on the right side of that hole that were inconsequential for tour players of today. They left the traps but put a small grove of trees behind them. We could not buy the trees at the size we wanted, so we moved some from other places on the golf course. I like trees, they define a golf course, we took a few out from the east side of the greens so they could get the all important morning sun that greens need."


RS: I know part of this renovation is to honor your dads wish about getting a US Open here. Anyone from the USGA been out yet to take a peak, like Mike Davis (USGA Tournament)?
FJ: "Mike Davis was out here and we rode him around the course, while he was in town for a meeting. He gave us two to three hours of his time and we showed him what had been done. He gave some pieces of advice to us, but mostly just looked around. He had talked to Rees Jones and must have liked what Rees said or he would not have been out here looking around. I do truly believe there will be another US Open in Chicago, it's the third biggest market in the country."


RS: Frank, when they started moving dirt out there did they find anything, maybe that your dad put out there, like customers he didn't like (laughs)?
FJ: "We found a lot of golf balls buried in the ground, I guess that was from the spring of the year. 13th green was where an old convent used to be, the top part was hit by a tornado. So when the 13th green was rebuilt they ran into the foundation."


RS: Anything you would like to say to your customers we haven't covered?
FJ: "I think they will like the course when it is done. I am telling people we will be open spring of 2009, but if the weather co-operates maybe we can be open for a few weeks in the fall of next year (2008)."